From: allreadydun@gmail.com

we'll call it AP Juice. because it slightly moves
the AP. I bet this stuff does do that. It's kind
of a safe & sane way of doing shrooms. I guess
down the road this company will try to do some things with
peyote and other such items.

Roll over Charlie Arana. You just a little ahead of
your time ole nagually.

so 50 years ago it was "everybody must get stoned"
now it's everyone has to move their assemblage point a little.
Even if, even if, we don't know wtf the AP is ?
Is it real? or was it just someone's imagination. ?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

i think it would be helpful to begin a WILD
techique by beginning close to a REM cycle.
Perhaps at the top of REM or maybe just before.
Why? Because it is really the only time we dream.
So you could be laying in bed (like a big idiot)
trying to bring about hypnogogia but there is no
possibility at that moment. So i think one has
to sense when they are close to a REM cycle.
REM is every 90 minutes generally. Kind of built
in evolutionary designed program. what say hotshot
WILD man Slider ?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

we'll call it AP Juice. because it slightly moves
the AP. I bet this stuff does do that. It's kind
of a safe & sane way of doing shrooms. I guess
down the road this company will try to do some things with
peyote and other such items.

Roll over Charlie Arana. You just a little ahead of
your time ole nagually.

so 50 years ago it was "everybody must get stoned"
now it's everyone has to move their assemblage point a little.
Even if, even if, we don't know wtf the AP is ?
Is it real? or was it just someone's imagination. ?

### - no way to know that unless you could actually see it in action
innit, so it's just a pretty model; the real mystery being where he got
such a cool idea/model from?

have always personally known that awareness can change/shift though, it
had happened through illness before a few times but had never put it
together and just thought/accepted that i was ill, being sick makes ya
feel weird and even makes things look weird, after taking acid, however,
there was no denying that awareness could be different on occasion,
whatever made awareness change via acid was similar (if not the same) as
being ill only more so... after that acid (and tried it 7 times in all) my awareness used to sometimes change fairly drastically under weed, not all
weed, just some of it consistently did it more than usual and those were
pretty bracing + scary experiences... later learned that unplanned changes
to routine could have a very similar effect; smoke a little normal weed so
only slightly stoned, and then do something quite ordinary that ya
wouldn't normally do quite that way, and wallop, you could find yourself
in another world haha... i used to call them excursions because it would
only last a while and then wear off :)

the problem is, we generally only even notice the really extreme stuff?
acid, for example, hits you over the head like a hammer and drastically
alters your awareness, one can't help but notice it it's so much, but far subtler changes also occur that are just as useful, one could even go as
far as to say/suggest that even the slightest change in awareness is
actually huge provided you notice the change and then act on it in some
way...

e.g., in starting to fall asleep (or even just feeling 'tired') awareness
has shifted ever so slightly, enough, for example, to start doin' some
really crazy shit like wandering around in alternate realities via what
people currently call WILDing heh... and that ever so slight natural shift
in awareness makes it possible, so there's really no need for gross things
like acid or even micro-doses of other things 'coz we can do everything
acid does 'without' the acid just by noticing ever so slight changes in awareness and then acting on them to maximise the effect ;)

why bother doin' all that?

because the alternative is to do nada and just live like a slave all our
life, end of story...

conclusion: there's obviously a lot more to us than we're generally aware
of by default :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@atashram.com

i think it would be helpful to begin a WILD
techique by beginning close to a REM cycle.
Perhaps at the top of REM or maybe just before.
Why? Because it is really the only time we dream.
So you could be laying in bed (like a big idiot)
trying to bring about hypnogogia but there is no
possibility at that moment. So i think one has
to sense when they are close to a REM cycle.
REM is every 90 minutes generally. Kind of built
in evolutionary designed program. what say hotshot
WILD man Slider ?

### - know what you're saying/suggesting but have to totally disagree :)

rem is 'actual' sleep and we're not actually sleeping when we WILD...

i.e., rem are the few moments 'during' actual sleep when we rouse slightly towards waking, we begin to wake up from our sleep and this makes us
dream, we are actually WILDing at that point albeit completely
unconsciously so the dreams are always random and we lack all control
because we don't even realise we're doing it... when we 'do' recognise it
we then call that a dild instead of seeing it for what it really is: an unwitting/unrealised WILD...

iow: dilds don't actually exist because 'all' lucid dreams are in fact
types of WILD :)

the only way to get near a rem-state is to actually fall asleep and thus approach it from a totally unconscious pov when you start to rouse from
that sleep, people think/imagine that wbtb creates these conditions of
being near (or having just woken from) a rem state, but that's not at all
the reason why they can then WILD fairly easily, the reason is simply &
solely because they aren't fully awake yet and are thus still in a
slightly altered state, a state it's then very easy to go WILD from and
just as though you'd spent half an hour deliberately relaxing at some
other time of the day...

got it? ;)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@atashram.com

(your mind is just being stubborn, so take no nonsense from it:
insist...)

### - laying there like a big idiot is precisely what you have to do?

(really laffing hehehe...)

at least that's how it all starts out anyway haha...

but that's not how it ends!

a few nites of that is thus required, so do it with good cheer knowing
what it all leads to...

i.e., it's this placing of oneself at that door and then knocking
repeatedly on that door that eventually opens it when something inside you finally gives-in and/or makes the crucial connection...

you can do this Chris, but you have to insist, and in your case insisting
means trying it again over and over until that door opens even if you feel
like a big idiot just laying there in the meantime haha... and 'coz that's
you not being your usual self ;)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

so would say that DILD is hopping aboard the
REM train ? REM shows up and one is dreaming
then one (gets lucky) lands on lucidity ?
you have to remember i severely moved the AP
about 50 years ago. Maybe it was good, maybe
it was bad, who knows? There is definitely
something interferring with hynogogia aspect.
I feel like i'm pulling my pud most of the time
i try for a WILD. oh well, what can poor idiot
do? lol!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

So you could be laying in bed (like a big idiot)
trying to bring about hypnogogia but there is no
possibility at that moment.

### - just posted that other reply and this part came ringing back to me
hehehe :)))

so ok, you're having difficulty (smile) with bringing yourself to the
place where the hypnagogia appear, you know how to WILD ok but
'deliberately' getting yourself to the right place where the hypnagogia
are still eludes you, so you keep looking for some kinda 3rd-party means
of achieving same?

maybe look at it this way ok?

the relaxing stage is where one 'deliberately' makes oneself feel very
similar to feeling tired but without actually feeling tired, it's only an emulation of falling asleep, one that tricks the body into thinking it's bedtime and so awareness begins to shift, a tiny shift you recognise as
the body beginning to feel a little strange in some manner... get to there
and that's where the hypnagogia start to then appear...

so ok, now the body feels slightly different in some way (numb, expanded
or whatever) then that's the right place and you need look no farther...

if the body doesn't feel slightly odd there wont be any hypnagogia!

to start seeing the hypnagogia stare fixedly into the distance + keep your
eyes perfectly still, and wait... there will likely already be some blobs
and streaks coming and going and that's the start of it, now you have to wait... at some point it changes to something more like images, then
actual images, but if ya even twitch your eyes it all disappears...

steady practice brings it's own rewards...

there's no alternative that doesn't fuck things up...

forget any shortcuts, just make up your mind, once & for all, that you're
gonna MAKE this work! be determined! plus tell yourself that you just
ain't gonna stop now until you one day succeed! thus it's a foregone
conclusion and as such only a matter of when!

that should do it hehehe ;)

(your mind is just being stubborn, so take no nonsense from it: insist...)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

so would say that DILD is hopping aboard the
REM train ? REM shows up and one is dreaming
then one (gets lucky) lands on lucidity ?

### - all sleeping dreams only occur during rem, that's what rem is!

to wake up in an on-going ordinary rem-dream is what they call a dild...

There is definitely
something interferring with hynogogia aspect.
I feel like i'm pulling my pud most of the time
i try for a WILD. oh well, what can poor idiot
do? lol!

### - you didn't know what hypnagogia even looked like once but now you
do, you've now seen them several times in different forms, you've even experienced a few WILDS, your only problem being to get to see them when
you want
to instead of only by accident as is currently the case...

there's no shortcuts for you my friend + there's nada wrong with ya
either...

ya simply have to forge the connection yourself step-by-step like everyone
else

truth is, you 'do' see them, every nite without fail, else you wouldn't be
able
to fall asleep at all, you'd be a total insomniac! you just never remember
that
part... and when you do see them you don't remember 'how' you gots to see
'em,
they were just there already...

suggest starting over from scratch, going very carefully & slowly through
the
3 stages, and not even attempting to see any hypnagogia until passing
stage 1...

it's time to stop fuckin' about mate!

:)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)