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collectivism and bolshevism are VERY BAD things.

### - i like how you put it: "Moderate socialism" - iow: taking just the
best bits from it!

that's acceptable! and is how we got a national health service in the
first place!

i.e., it's a bit like how churchill picked his war cabinet; in that he
didn't just pick people from his own party as one might assume, but chose people from across all parties based entirely on being just the best man
for the job! earnest bevin (left-wing and the inventor of the NHS after
the war, when people were coming home missing arms & legs and shit) being
one of them!

I'm a little to the right of things, what's known as a libertarian.
Yet I like my dope and psychedelics and love colourful shirts and
reckless ways. Oh yeah, and I do have an unsettling love of $$$ :)

### - (slider & thang peering at each other across the fence...) i do understand haha... conversely am a little to the left of things, what's
known as a hippy heh, love my dope and colourful shirts, and interested in history & psychology and how this world ended up in such a goddamn mess
etc, thus a friend to the artists and deep thinkers because i value
them... you've got it relatively easy over there on the right but things
are not so easy on the left, it's a more exacting & difficult path ;)

am still hoping he'll win it though, if only as a protest-vote from a
populace fed up by now with the rantings & ravings of a lunatic?
methinks
they might be just a bit jaded with all that by now, what with covid
on
top of all that too?

Oh there's not much wrong with Biden. He admitted to mistakes by him
and Obame in the last debate which was great - I always have a place
for anyone who can admit they were wrong (something I haven't seen you
do mate, even when you have been wrong lol).

### - ahaha :)))

well i'll offer you then the same opportunity i gave jeremy to please
provide concrete examples that *isn't* just a difference of opinion at
the
time? (he came up with a list of about 7 such examples, all of which
could
be instantly refuted for one perfectly valid reason or another, and
where,
for example, i'd covered myself by admitting, at the time, that it was
only so in imho etc... that what he was actually angry about was the
fact
that i seemed to be getting things rather correct on a regular basis
'in-spite' of his opinions to the contrary? to the point he started this
thing whereby "i'm always right and will never admit when am wrong" even
though he couldn't provide even one single concrete example of such??

so please provide a 'concrete' example of where i actually got something
'wrong' and i'll readily admit to it (i've never personally claimed to
be
infallible, that was just jeremy accusing me of never being wrong etc
etc)

Nope, not going there. I'm sorry (get it? an apology) for my comment.
Let's move on otherwise it will be a war of two and this group is
gonna really die.

### - good choice + i respect that too, am too enjoying things as they
are, it's nice to be nice :)

And fuck Jeremy/Dave. He has taken his scrawny head and fucked off to
places unknown and I don't miss him much. He was far too inflexible
and stuck in his silly ways, even though he vaunted himself as being
of high intellect. How on earth could any intelligent and well
balanced adult get entangled in a such obviously nonsensical fairytale
scam as the eponym of this group?

### - jeremy had come fresh from being with the scientologists, and disappointed with them (and still looking for some kind of a tooth fairy
to believe in) he was seeking pastures new and found this guy castaneda; a radically different idea (cosmology) altogether compared to just about everything else on offer, a whole generation was talking about castaneda
after all, amongst various others... so i too had a good look at him
albeit not to the extent these dudes got into it by actually meeting with castaneda and trying to absorb the teachings directly, even to being part
of some kind of exclusive inner, inner-circle of friends... that's it's actually worth reading if you're into cosmologies, perforce to which
there's no end of cosmologies to examine, it's just that 'his' was rather different... i would've liked to have met him for sure, and did in a
series of dreams only that's a different matter altogether heh ;)

I like Joe, I think he's ok if not a tad slow in memory - but what the
fuck, I'm going to be late-60's soon and my memories are all still
intact as far as I know, but it's a shitload slower retrieving them :)

### - having been in politics for the last 47 years he's a genuine
statesman in every sense of the word, whereas trumpy's just some recent
'businessman' without even a clue about politics?? hence he's a great
dictator but a lousy statesman as we've seen from his rather callous
actions towards his own people in their time of need...

Entirely agree. He is safe hands personified and a lot of Yanks are
going to vote for him just for that reason. Trump is an actual
radical, a word you won't find is synonymous with revolutionary. He's
out there and in some ways that's good, a big shakeup every now and
then is good for our species. But his lack of empathy and respect for
the American people is staggering and probably some sort of
psychological defect - malignant narcissism more than likely.

### - so can you imagine the headlines the day after the election if he
loses?

YOU'RE FIRED!!!

ahahaha! :D :D :D

plus no doubt trumpy's gonna make some big-deal outta the postal votes >>>> if
he loses heh (their biggest postal-vote in history!) the best that
could
happen being a total landslide to biden, sooo BIG the postal votes
wont
even matter... (a best case scenario heh)

I think Trump is fucked and when he loses, he will foment some sort of
conflict perhaps even approaching a civil war. Let's wait and see,
it's all very imminent.

### - am actually surprised there hasn't already been something far more
drastic from him; some ultimate stunt he pulled to ensure a victory?
(even
thought he was maybe gonna do it with china over this virus shit and
start
some kinda more overt war with them, something that obviated the
election
altogether kinda thing? thank goodness, he didn't)

Nope that will come if and when he's roundly defeated. There are
plenty of libertarians and far right conservative folk out there with
GUNS.

### - he certainly primed it for something like that by casting aspersions
on the postal votes being bent, the biggest postal vote in their history
due to covid, what a coincidence! not to mention deliberately installing, against tradition, a far-right judge (another religious nut) in the
supreme court only days before an election?? (very useful in order to push through any right-wing applications at the highest level: democracy at
work lol)

so yeah it should be good, and even very entertaining lol depending on >>>> which way it all goes haha...

Yep, you got that right. I will be enjoying myself immensely.

### - lashings of colas and popcorns at the ready here boss! haha!
:)));)

this is gonna be a 'key' episode of Dallas the soap opera!

Lol. Might be more to that than you think, Dallas being in Texas and
all where Trump gets a huge hunk of his elecoral college votes.

### - it's just very appropriate lol :)))

this world is just so fucked up though thang that trumpy could still
win
it, their electoral collage bs being a way to virtually guarantee a
fix
can always go in, whereas a one-man-one-vote system (i.e., what they
euphemistically call: the popular vote hah!) would always be more
representative...

It's not the world that's fucked up, it's human nature - we're peak
thinkers, predators and toolmakers, but we haven't shucked off our
primal baggage from our primordial beginnings. That will come - the
danger is we will wipe ourselves out before we can defeat our
instincts and evolutionary survival traits.

### - i indeed meant the human race only, there's being nada wrong
whatsoever with nature and the rest of the universe, which appears
perfect, it's just the human race that's all fucked up ;)

Nature is perfectly in balance all the way down and up, through
regions and levels we can't even guess at let alone peer at. Nature
is the true god infinite and eternal.

### - if you 'need' there to be a 'god' then yes, Nature fits the bill perfectly...

the whole thing is... 'alive' - and does actually respond to us if we can
be bothered to communicate with it (not in rational terms but in actual/practical terms...)

I'm always surprised that many people can't see this self-evident
fact. One needs a view of nature unburdened with sentimentality and
belief in tooth fairies and gods and all that junk - then reality
comes plainly into view.

### - that's totally correct imho... the human race is living in their
very own little bubble of self-constructed + invented reality which
they've superimposed upon the greater background reality that all the
rest
of nature is still in contact directly with... we're a maladjusted
species
heh ;)

Yes but we are a very, very young species. I collect trilobites -
they were around for 250 million years and went extinct (as all
species do, with the possible exception of man) in the Permian, so
long ago dinosaurs weren't even a figment of a dream of an
hallucination.

That was an old lineage when it went extinct, after quarter of a
billion years. We've been around for a quarter of one percent of that
time - we're pretty damn young and as for all young things, we have
the very best ahead of us.

But then again, I'm an incurable optimist.

### - in truth, there's only ever been the 'one' single species existing
here, the same single entity/life-form from which everything else has
evolved, ever more complex expressions of itself all the way up from
single cell to us - is pretty mind blowing really! - that we are all truly related on this planet from the bottom to the top! (genetically speaking
we're 98% chimpanzee for example, which sounds cool until you consider
that we're also 50% cabbage haha...)

the whole world is thus rigged to work & function in a very certain +
specific way that ultimately stinks to high heaven...

You mean "human world" - nature generated our species and when we are
extinct, whether it be in 50 years or 50,000,000 years, we won't be
missed by nature at all.

### - yes, the human world, the 'false' human world that flies in the
face
of nature as it really is and has always been... the human race not
giving
2-shits for how nature 'wants' to be, we've got our own ideas which,
coincidentally, results in us directly destroying nature! (i mean, what
more proof do we need that we need to change our ways??)

There's nothing false about anything. It is what it is, all the way.
Even lies are part of reality, the lie itself, not the subject matter
of the lie.

We're young species and like most young things, we're insanely
egocentric. Babies don't give a fuck about anyone or anything else
than themselves. We're a baby species. Give us time.

### - by false am referring to the 'humanly conceived' ideas of society
and civilisation; our own projected thoughts and ideas that we exclusively relate to 'more' than we relate to the underlying reality that all the
rest of nature still retains an awareness of and relates directly to...
there is a difference...

like children, yes, we live in our own little version of the world and
dumbly (i.e., unquestioningly) relate exclusively to it in exactly the
same way a child relates to santa clause and the tooth fairy: no less than
just adult versions thereof!

that that's the bit we haven't (as a species) quite grasped as yet, that
just because as adults we grew out of believing in santa, that didn't stop
us from still applying that very same formula/belief to everything else we
then do (iow: we didn't grow up at all lol, we merely exchanged santa and
the tooth fairy for something more adult to believe in instead hehe)

that IF there's a 'god' up there, he must be choking on the fumes of
it
all by now heh ;)

There's no "up" to start with. We're just a blip on the screen, an
outlier even in this pretty ordinary galaxy we're gravitationally
bound to. There definitely isn't a god in the way we imagine it to
be. Most people, deep deep down, know this.

### - was really only speaking rhetorically hehe, and just a little
humour
on my part with the emphasis on "IF" in capital letters hah, because
imho
we're totally alone with not even 'aliens' to help us hah! (fuckin'
aliens!? lol, riiiiight... and coz just look at the damnable state of us
and our world if *they've* been guiding us??? lol fuck off with their
aliens shit! - aliens?? riiiiight... ahaha... sorry folks but there
ain't
no stinkin' aliens! okaaaay? fuckin' aliens! gimmie a break!)

But you don't know if there are any aliens. No one does. That's an
opinion you're expressing not a fact. We don't have the facts.

### - am not saying/suggesting that life only exists here in the universe,
it would be ridiculous to think that, not to mention incredibly
egotistical as in when we used to believe the sun orbited the earth lol!
that if life exists 'here' then chances are it exists everywhere! but as
to 'aliens' furtively visiting us in their fuckin' flying saucers?? am
just not into all that haha (imho it's bs)

there IS however: Nature! which we're definitely a part of, and IS a
part
of us!

Everything is nature and nature is everything. To the bounds of the observable universe (several trillion galaxies in a volume around 90
billion light years in diameter) and the probable infinitude
thereafter. Our actions are nature because of this - there's no
"outside" nature. This place has been destroyed countless times over
- the Permian Extinction, the extinction of the dinosaurs, the very
very early extinctions and the biggest of all 2500 million years ago
when our atmosphere was changed by blue green algae from lovely safe non-oxidising methane and so on to fucking OXYGEN! Killed almost
entirely the life on terra, but paved the way for multicellular
organisms which paved the way for ....

US!

### - that's certainly one way of looking at it heh (the 'rationalised'
version i mean)

only, can 'life' (and all that entails/implies) really be rationalised in
such a manner without necessarily distorting the whole picture in the
process? any attempt to squeeze infinity into a box (no matter how big
that box) in order to examine it reducing it to something less than
infinity every time?

that doesn't stop us from trying though does it hah! and thus we've ended
up with one version after another of the damn tooth fairy!

that there's obviously more (a whole heap more!) to life, the universe & everything than reason alone can account for ;)

and we're in direct communication with it, only we don't really wanna
know
because it runs counter to all our own crappy ideas?

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

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since then we have been back to back with them in more wars than even >>>>>> the Canadians. We're gonna need them against the ChiComs. Trump is >>>>>> great against the ChiComs but Biden is an unknown quantity. Let's >>>>>> see.

### - biden is fairly typical of modern left-wing policy: center-left >>>>> with
fair-er shares for everyone kinda thing? (tony blair was similar for >>>>> example, but so central he was almost a right-winger lol, something
which
at the time caused me to call him: 'tory blur' haha)

Tony Blair was a fucking hypocrite - Bush's plaything in the post-9/11 >>>> wars, a yes man if ever there was one. We had such a cunt too, his
name was John Howard. Both consigned to the ash bin of history.

### - bush's poodle they accused him of being here haha... i saw it
another way though (possibly a bit romantically heh) of england in the
form of tory blur playing 'grand vizier' to the royal court of bush, an
experienced & wise advisor to them, who, for example, whispered in their >>> ear saying: yes go blow the shit outta sadam, but do it 'legally' with
rest of the world behind you is better than just acting unilaterally as
they were wont to actually do at the time! (it still turned out to be
completely unjustified as sadam didn't actually have any wmd's nor
anything to do with 9/11, but suited the US's purposes & plans for that
whole region, and which we all then subsequently witnessed as one muslim >>> nation after another was systematically dismantled and/or thrown into
chaos across the whole of the middle east, thus isolating iran; the seat >>> of islamic teaching, in the process...)

Look I do believe Blair intended well at the outset but lost his moral
compass and principles along the way. Bush for all his vagaries and
dumbkopf ways had a very strong personality like most in his family
and he fucking well got his way with Blair.

Try this:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/04/phone-call-bush-blair-failed-iraq

Nothing romantic there mate, nothing at all. Just one person
dominating the other.

### - romantic is only a way of looking at things, a bit like me calling
the election a slightly better episode of Dallas hah, a kind of historical >romanticism in my case, one wherein an england bent on empire one day
takes a backseat on the whole matter and ends up as the grand vizier
(usually an evil character in those stories heh) to the royal court of
bush, whispering advice in his ear about whose plotting against whom and
what he should maybe do about it, having some influence anyway upon the
royal decisions... not to much a poodle as a little pet lap-demon lol :)))

But it didn't happen that way at all. Blair was subservient to Bush
and many in your country still don't forgive him for being so weak and
for giving up his principles so easily. I don't think he has forgiven
himself for being so cowardly. His reputation has been trashed. And
then there was Cherie being scammed by Peter Foster, our worst
sociopathic scam artist ever. He scammed Samantha Fox (?) if I recall correctly as well.

and if biden's not exactly that, then is at least heading/leaning in >>>>> that
direction as they always do if not of the too far-left... (Corbyn here >>>>> was
farther-left, which is why even his own party disapproved of him, the >>>>> loons!)

America will never, ever vote a far left polly in. That would be
tantamount to giving up to the Russians. There is too much water
under the bridge for that to ever happen.

Whereas here in Australia we have had moderate socialism of the same
order as you in the UK - good socialised medicine, excellent welfare
and so on. I think we modeled our Medicare system after the UK's if
I'm not mistaken, and it works wonderfully well.

### - that's a good point, that there are 'certain' things about it
that's
obviously ok and even needed (they 'invented' the national health
service
here after the 2nd world war for example, which is obviously a good
thing!
even though they (the right) still bitch & moan about it costing them a
fortune and, more often than not, actively remove resources from it!

i mean yes it's costly! but is surely also a basic need like gas, water
and fucking electricity?? the wealthy still having bupa & private
insurance if they wanna have cherries on it; they can afford it!

Fully agree. Moderate socialism is a good thing, communism,
collectivism and bolshevism are VERY BAD things.

### - i like how you put it: "Moderate socialism" - iow: taking just the
best bits from it!

No, just toning it down a lot. Even though the Manifesto was written
in London, it was applied full blown in Russia and the good bits as
you say were overshadowed by the gulags, Lubianka, torture, Beria and
Stalin's terrible personality. Toning it down by the socialist labor
parties here and in the UK gave it a chance to work for the people in
the way it should work - pervasive, durable health care for all
regardless of income and social stratum, welfare to ensure that no one
starved to death if unemployed or unemployable, superannuation (I
don't know what it's called in the UK) to ensure moderately
comfortable retirement without draining the economy, pharmaceutical
benefits to reduce the cost of basic medicines for those who are
disadvantaged and so on.

that's acceptable! and is how we got a national health service in the
first place!

i.e., it's a bit like how churchill picked his war cabinet; in that he
didn't just pick people from his own party as one might assume, but chose >people from across all parties based entirely on being just the best man
for the job! earnest bevin (left-wing and the inventor of the NHS after
the war, when people were coming home missing arms & legs and shit) being
one of them!

But that's logical in a time of existential crisis. Hitler had a list
of those to be killed immediately when invaded and Churchill was at
the top - politics was secondary to mere survival. Any intelligent
politician in a time of such crisis would do the same.

I'm a little to the right of things, what's known as a libertarian.
Yet I like my dope and psychedelics and love colourful shirts and
reckless ways. Oh yeah, and I do have an unsettling love of $$$ :)

### - (slider & thang peering at each other across the fence...) i do >understand haha... conversely am a little to the left of things, what's
known as a hippy heh, love my dope and colourful shirts, and interested in >history & psychology and how this world ended up in such a goddamn mess
etc, thus a friend to the artists and deep thinkers because i value
them... you've got it relatively easy over there on the right but things
are not so easy on the left, it's a more exacting & difficult path ;)

I was carefree and hippy in my youth but life got in the way and now
bitter experience and there's simply no time to be naive about things.
I'm progressive in terms of science and technology and completely
libertarian in most ways - I do NOT believe that any human being has
the right to impede any other human being in their lifestyle choices,
only if other humans or animals or nature itself is going to be hurt
as a result of those choices. Then, it's generally ok to intervene or
impose one's will.

I love art but it's only a luxury of those who eat enough and are
sheltered and safe and healthy - due to science and technology. If
you have a heart attack then you know that science and technology will
more likely save your life - 100 years ago, that was not the case. As
I said above, I'm grateful to be alive in this day and age. For one
thing, life expectancy is far greater now than it ever has been and I
like living.

am still hoping he'll win it though, if only as a protest-vote from a >>>>> populace fed up by now with the rantings & ravings of a lunatic?
methinks
they might be just a bit jaded with all that by now, what with covid >>>>> on
top of all that too?

Oh there's not much wrong with Biden. He admitted to mistakes by him
and Obame in the last debate which was great - I always have a place
for anyone who can admit they were wrong (something I haven't seen you >>>> do mate, even when you have been wrong lol).

### - ahaha :)))

well i'll offer you then the same opportunity i gave jeremy to please
provide concrete examples that *isn't* just a difference of opinion at
the
time? (he came up with a list of about 7 such examples, all of which
could
be instantly refuted for one perfectly valid reason or another, and
where,
for example, i'd covered myself by admitting, at the time, that it was
only so in imho etc... that what he was actually angry about was the
fact
that i seemed to be getting things rather correct on a regular basis
'in-spite' of his opinions to the contrary? to the point he started this >>> thing whereby "i'm always right and will never admit when am wrong" even >>> though he couldn't provide even one single concrete example of such??

so please provide a 'concrete' example of where i actually got something >>> 'wrong' and i'll readily admit to it (i've never personally claimed to
be
infallible, that was just jeremy accusing me of never being wrong etc
etc)

Nope, not going there. I'm sorry (get it? an apology) for my comment.
Let's move on otherwise it will be a war of two and this group is
gonna really die.

### - good choice + i respect that too, am too enjoying things as they
are, it's nice to be nice :)

And fuck Jeremy/Dave. He has taken his scrawny head and fucked off to
places unknown and I don't miss him much. He was far too inflexible
and stuck in his silly ways, even though he vaunted himself as being
of high intellect. How on earth could any intelligent and well
balanced adult get entangled in a such obviously nonsensical fairytale
scam as the eponym of this group?

### - jeremy had come fresh from being with the scientologists, and >disappointed with them (and still looking for some kind of a tooth fairy
to believe in) he was seeking pastures new and found this guy castaneda; a >radically different idea (cosmology) altogether compared to just about >everything else on offer, a whole generation was talking about castaneda >after all, amongst various others... so i too had a good look at him
albeit not to the extent these dudes got into it by actually meeting with >castaneda and trying to absorb the teachings directly, even to being part
of some kind of exclusive inner, inner-circle of friends... that's it's >actually worth reading if you're into cosmologies, perforce to which
there's no end of cosmologies to examine, it's just that 'his' was rather >different... i would've liked to have met him for sure, and did in a
series of dreams only that's a different matter altogether heh ;)

I didn't know he was sucked in my so-called scientology (used to be
Dianetics when L Ron Hubbard invented the fucking thing on a dare by
another SF writer). How could he be sucked in by something so
patently false? And then to follow it by being sucked in by
Castaneda?

Did he also follow Lobsang Rampa (one of your people, if I recall
correctly, writing about his Tibetan travels from a flat in London or somewhere).

I know this guy here called Peter Foster, I might give him Dave's
email address. Peter has a really, really good investment idea...

I like Joe, I think he's ok if not a tad slow in memory - but what the >>>> fuck, I'm going to be late-60's soon and my memories are all still
intact as far as I know, but it's a shitload slower retrieving them :)

### - having been in politics for the last 47 years he's a genuine
statesman in every sense of the word, whereas trumpy's just some recent
'businessman' without even a clue about politics?? hence he's a great
dictator but a lousy statesman as we've seen from his rather callous
actions towards his own people in their time of need...

Entirely agree. He is safe hands personified and a lot of Yanks are
going to vote for him just for that reason. Trump is an actual
radical, a word you won't find is synonymous with revolutionary. He's
out there and in some ways that's good, a big shakeup every now and
then is good for our species. But his lack of empathy and respect for
the American people is staggering and probably some sort of
psychological defect - malignant narcissism more than likely.

### - so can you imagine the headlines the day after the election if he >loses?

YOU'RE FIRED!!!

ahahaha! :D :D :D

Problem is it will still be contested one month after Tuesday.

plus no doubt trumpy's gonna make some big-deal outta the postal votes >>>>> if
he loses heh (their biggest postal-vote in history!) the best that
could
happen being a total landslide to biden, sooo BIG the postal votes
wont
even matter... (a best case scenario heh)

I think Trump is fucked and when he loses, he will foment some sort of >>>> conflict perhaps even approaching a civil war. Let's wait and see,
it's all very imminent.

### - am actually surprised there hasn't already been something far more >>> drastic from him; some ultimate stunt he pulled to ensure a victory?
(even
thought he was maybe gonna do it with china over this virus shit and
start
some kinda more overt war with them, something that obviated the
election
altogether kinda thing? thank goodness, he didn't)

Nope that will come if and when he's roundly defeated. There are
plenty of libertarians and far right conservative folk out there with
GUNS.

### - he certainly primed it for something like that by casting aspersions
on the postal votes being bent, the biggest postal vote in their history
due to covid, what a coincidence! not to mention deliberately installing, >against tradition, a far-right judge (another religious nut) in the
supreme court only days before an election?? (very useful in order to push >through any right-wing applications at the highest level: democracy at
work lol)

All religious people are nuts. And Biden, if he wins, will pack the
court so that the conservative votes are watered down.

so yeah it should be good, and even very entertaining lol depending on >>>>> which way it all goes haha...

Yep, you got that right. I will be enjoying myself immensely.

### - lashings of colas and popcorns at the ready here boss! haha!
:)));)

this is gonna be a 'key' episode of Dallas the soap opera!

Lol. Might be more to that than you think, Dallas being in Texas and
all where Trump gets a huge hunk of his elecoral college votes.

Yep, most votes for the reds while California holds most votes for the
blues.

### - it's just very appropriate lol :)))

this world is just so fucked up though thang that trumpy could still >>>>> win
it, their electoral collage bs being a way to virtually guarantee a
fix
can always go in, whereas a one-man-one-vote system (i.e., what they >>>>> euphemistically call: the popular vote hah!) would always be more
representative...

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

[continued from previous message]

and he fucking well got his way with Blair.

Try this:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/04/phone-call-bush-blair-failed-iraq

Nothing romantic there mate, nothing at all. Just one person
dominating the other.

### - romantic is only a way of looking at things, a bit like me calling
the election a slightly better episode of Dallas hah, a kind of
historical
romanticism in my case, one wherein an england bent on empire one day
takes a backseat on the whole matter and ends up as the grand vizier
(usually an evil character in those stories heh) to the royal court of
bush, whispering advice in his ear about whose plotting against whom and
what he should maybe do about it, having some influence anyway upon the
royal decisions... not to much a poodle as a little pet lap-demon lol
:)))

But it didn't happen that way at all. Blair was subservient to Bush
and many in your country still don't forgive him for being so weak and
for giving up his principles so easily. I don't think he has forgiven himself for being so cowardly. His reputation has been trashed. And
then there was Cherie being scammed by Peter Foster, our worst
sociopathic scam artist ever. He scammed Samantha Fox (?) if I recall correctly as well.

### - some of it did happen though! blair advised bush not to go it alone
for instance? literally advised them to do it legally instead of acting unilaterally... that's what happened!

and if biden's not exactly that, then is at least heading/leaning in >>>>>> that
direction as they always do if not of the too far-left... (Corbyn
here
was
farther-left, which is why even his own party disapproved of him,
the
loons!)

America will never, ever vote a far left polly in. That would be
tantamount to giving up to the Russians. There is too much water
under the bridge for that to ever happen.

Whereas here in Australia we have had moderate socialism of the same >>>>> order as you in the UK - good socialised medicine, excellent welfare >>>>> and so on. I think we modeled our Medicare system after the UK's if >>>>> I'm not mistaken, and it works wonderfully well.

### - that's a good point, that there are 'certain' things about it
that's
obviously ok and even needed (they 'invented' the national health
service
here after the 2nd world war for example, which is obviously a good
thing!
even though they (the right) still bitch & moan about it costing them
a
fortune and, more often than not, actively remove resources from it!

i mean yes it's costly! but is surely also a basic need like gas,
water
and fucking electricity?? the wealthy still having bupa & private
insurance if they wanna have cherries on it; they can afford it!

Fully agree. Moderate socialism is a good thing, communism,
collectivism and bolshevism are VERY BAD things.

### - i like how you put it: "Moderate socialism" - iow: taking just the
best bits from it!

No, just toning it down a lot. Even though the Manifesto was written
in London, it was applied full blown in Russia and the good bits as
you say were overshadowed by the gulags, Lubianka, torture, Beria and Stalin's terrible personality. Toning it down by the socialist labor
parties here and in the UK gave it a chance to work for the people in
the way it should work - pervasive, durable health care for all
regardless of income and social stratum, welfare to ensure that no one starved to death if unemployed or unemployable, superannuation (I
don't know what it's called in the UK) to ensure moderately
comfortable retirement without draining the economy, pharmaceutical
benefits to reduce the cost of basic medicines for those who are disadvantaged and so on.

### - russian communism was a philosophical thing/movement, they seized on marx, then lenin, the revolution designed to remove power & property from
the ruling elite and give it back to the people, the french revolution
that preceded it being only very slightly different based on a slightly
earlier philosophy, one that evolved into the russian revolution
philosophy later with some modifications to it (you know: overthrow the
elite, power to the people etc etc, set up a new + more just state, only
it hardly ever works out that way does it hah! all the french ultimately
did was to get rid of their aristocracy, otherwise things are just about
the same there now lol, meet the new boss same as the old boss)

that's acceptable! and is how we got a national health service in the
first place!

i.e., it's a bit like how churchill picked his war cabinet; in that he
didn't just pick people from his own party as one might assume, but
chose
people from across all parties based entirely on being just the best man
for the job! earnest bevin (left-wing and the inventor of the NHS after
the war, when people were coming home missing arms & legs and shit)
being
one of them!

But that's logical in a time of existential crisis. Hitler had a list
of those to be killed immediately when invaded and Churchill was at
the top - politics was secondary to mere survival. Any intelligent politician in a time of such crisis would do the same.

### - maybe, but mostly they stick to their own members, picking someone
from the opposing camp etc, might have to always keep yer eye on 'em
kinda thing haha, but churchill certainly did that in a just the best man
for the
job scenario, something that raises him some in my view anyway...

I'm a little to the right of things, what's known as a libertarian.
Yet I like my dope and psychedelics and love colourful shirts and
reckless ways. Oh yeah, and I do have an unsettling love of $$$ :)

### - (slider & thang peering at each other across the fence...) i do
understand haha... conversely am a little to the left of things, what's
known as a hippy heh, love my dope and colourful shirts, and interested
in
history & psychology and how this world ended up in such a goddamn mess
etc, thus a friend to the artists and deep thinkers because i value
them... you've got it relatively easy over there on the right but things
are not so easy on the left, it's a more exacting & difficult path ;)

I was carefree and hippy in my youth but life got in the way and now
bitter experience and there's simply no time to be naive about things.
I'm progressive in terms of science and technology and completely
libertarian in most ways - I do NOT believe that any human being has
the right to impede any other human being in their lifestyle choices,
only if other humans or animals or nature itself is going to be hurt
as a result of those choices. Then, it's generally ok to intervene or
impose one's will.

### - i think i would've got-on with you fairly well in your crazy youth
stage hehe, more so perhaps than your businessman mode anyway? (am not
trying to be offensive here, but people who think & talk about money all
the time i find rather boring/banal sometimes? a bit like trumpy going-on
about his BIG numbers, beautiful numbers etc etc, putting numbers on everything?? i don't see/experience life quite in those terms? and as a
wild youth you were probably actually more like me haha, wink-wink)

I love art but it's only a luxury of those who eat enough and are
sheltered and safe and healthy - due to science and technology. If
you have a heart attack then you know that science and technology will
more likely save your life - 100 years ago, that was not the case. As
I said above, I'm grateful to be alive in this day and age. For one
thing, life expectancy is far greater now than it ever has been and I
like living.

### - i can understand all that, totally! makes perfect sense! but only if
you look at the world in a very certain way? there might be other ways i
mean, maybe even better ways, more 'human' ways that are 'alive' rather
than being robotic?

am still hoping he'll win it though, if only as a protest-vote from >>>>>> a
populace fed up by now with the rantings & ravings of a lunatic?
methinks
they might be just a bit jaded with all that by now, what with covid >>>>>> on
top of all that too?

Oh there's not much wrong with Biden. He admitted to mistakes by him >>>>> and Obame in the last debate which was great - I always have a place >>>>> for anyone who can admit they were wrong (something I haven't seen
you
do mate, even when you have been wrong lol).

### - ahaha :)))

well i'll offer you then the same opportunity i gave jeremy to please
provide concrete examples that *isn't* just a difference of opinion at >>>> the
time? (he came up with a list of about 7 such examples, all of which
could
be instantly refuted for one perfectly valid reason or another, and
where,
for example, i'd covered myself by admitting, at the time, that it was >>>> only so in imho etc... that what he was actually angry about was the
fact
that i seemed to be getting things rather correct on a regular basis
'in-spite' of his opinions to the contrary? to the point he started
this
thing whereby "i'm always right and will never admit when am wrong"
even
though he couldn't provide even one single concrete example of such??

so please provide a 'concrete' example of where i actually got
something
'wrong' and i'll readily admit to it (i've never personally claimed to >>>> be
infallible, that was just jeremy accusing me of never being wrong etc
etc)

Nope, not going there. I'm sorry (get it? an apology) for my comment.
Let's move on otherwise it will be a war of two and this group is
gonna really die.

### - good choice + i respect that too, am too enjoying things as they
are, it's nice to be nice :)

And fuck Jeremy/Dave. He has taken his scrawny head and fucked off to
places unknown and I don't miss him much. He was far too inflexible
and stuck in his silly ways, even though he vaunted himself as being
of high intellect. How on earth could any intelligent and well
balanced adult get entangled in a such obviously nonsensical fairytale
scam as the eponym of this group?

### - jeremy had come fresh from being with the scientologists, and
disappointed with them (and still looking for some kind of a tooth fairy
to believe in) he was seeking pastures new and found this guy
castaneda; a
radically different idea (cosmology) altogether compared to just about
everything else on offer, a whole generation was talking about castaneda
after all, amongst various others... so i too had a good look at him
albeit not to the extent these dudes got into it by actually meeting
with
castaneda and trying to absorb the teachings directly, even to being
part
of some kind of exclusive inner, inner-circle of friends... that's it's
actually worth reading if you're into cosmologies, perforce to which
there's no end of cosmologies to examine, it's just that 'his' was
rather
different... i would've liked to have met him for sure, and did in a
series of dreams only that's a different matter altogether heh ;)

I didn't know he was sucked in my so-called scientology (used to be
Dianetics when L Ron Hubbard invented the fucking thing on a dare by
another SF writer). How could he be sucked in by something so
patently false? And then to follow it by being sucked in by
Castaneda?

Did he also follow Lobsang Rampa (one of your people, if I recall
correctly, writing about his Tibetan travels from a flat in London or somewhere).

### - if you're 'looking' for some kinda tooth fairy to believe in, then scientology is really no worse than any other false religion hehehe :)))

that's how they get suckered-in i mean: they're looking for something to 'believe' in! they 'assume' there's something there! so then it's just a
matter of what! (laughing coz it's true!)

dave did the rounds! tried a few different ones! if that didn't do it he
moved on to the next! and the next and even the next lol (true!) all the
while never even considering that maybe they're ALL just a crock??

i mean, this is what happens to people raised in a religious setting no?
they implicitly believe in god, then maybe just in the spirit, then in
fuckin' aliens lol, it doesn't really matter 'what' they believe in just
as long as they believe in... something?

this is why i always say i don't 'believe' in anything, period!

and also too why i find myself walking around in a world conceived & made entirely by staunch believers in some one kinda crap or another, their
whole 'world' is comprised thus! in this world it's 'beliefs' all the way
down! ;)

I know this guy here called Peter Foster, I might give him Dave's
email address. Peter has a really, really good investment idea...

### - jeremy knows it's all a crock by now heh (no one could be so
thoroughly disappointed as many times as he was and not have learned
something about it by now?)

but i bet he still believes in money though! hah! :)))

I like Joe, I think he's ok if not a tad slow in memory - but what
the
fuck, I'm going to be late-60's soon and my memories are all still
intact as far as I know, but it's a shitload slower retrieving them
:)

### - having been in politics for the last 47 years he's a genuine
statesman in every sense of the word, whereas trumpy's just some
recent
'businessman' without even a clue about politics?? hence he's a great
dictator but a lousy statesman as we've seen from his rather callous
actions towards his own people in their time of need...

Entirely agree. He is safe hands personified and a lot of Yanks are
going to vote for him just for that reason. Trump is an actual
radical, a word you won't find is synonymous with revolutionary. He's
out there and in some ways that's good, a big shakeup every now and
then is good for our species. But his lack of empathy and respect for
the American people is staggering and probably some sort of
psychological defect - malignant narcissism more than likely.

### - so can you imagine the headlines the day after the election if he
loses?

YOU'RE FIRED!!!

ahahaha! :D :D :D

Problem is it will still be contested one month after Tuesday.

### - i know... but is still fun to think about that haha...

his face when he reads that lol: YOU'RE FIRED!!! (slap!)

'could' still even happen hehe, am watching it live lol just in case ;)

and, at 10am the next morning: well what a pile of shit LOL !

fucker got up there and declared a 'win' before they've even finished counting??

and wants to have the remaining postal votes disallowed haha :)))

fuck me! JR is pulling out all his strings tonite boy! lol...

democracy?? forget it haha, the 'manipulation' of democracy more like!

plus it's always the right-wing that pull all these corrupt stunts isn't
it?

so why is that do you think, it's like a tradition with them or something
;)

plus no doubt trumpy's gonna make some big-deal outta the postal
votes
if
he loses heh (their biggest postal-vote in history!) the best that

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what they did in WW2 in the Pacific against the Samurai barbarians >>>>>> and
since then we have been back to back with them in more wars than even >>>>>> the Canadians. We're gonna need them against the ChiComs. Trump is >>>>>> great against the ChiComs but Biden is an unknown quantity. Let's >>>>>> see.

### - biden is fairly typical of modern left-wing policy: center-left >>>>> with
fair-er shares for everyone kinda thing? (tony blair was similar for >>>>> example, but so central he was almost a right-winger lol, something
which
at the time caused me to call him: 'tory blur' haha)

Tony Blair was a fucking hypocrite - Bush's plaything in the post-9/11 >>>> wars, a yes man if ever there was one. We had such a cunt too, his
name was John Howard. Both consigned to the ash bin of history.

### - bush's poodle they accused him of being here haha... i saw it
another way though (possibly a bit romantically heh) of england in the
form of tory blur playing 'grand vizier' to the royal court of bush, an
experienced & wise advisor to them, who, for example, whispered in their >>> ear saying: yes go blow the shit outta sadam, but do it 'legally' with
rest of the world behind you is better than just acting unilaterally as
they were wont to actually do at the time! (it still turned out to be
completely unjustified as sadam didn't actually have any wmd's nor
anything to do with 9/11, but suited the US's purposes & plans for that
whole region, and which we all then subsequently witnessed as one muslim >>> nation after another was systematically dismantled and/or thrown into
chaos across the whole of the middle east, thus isolating iran; the seat >>> of islamic teaching, in the process...)

Look I do believe Blair intended well at the outset but lost his moral
compass and principles along the way. Bush for all his vagaries and
dumbkopf ways had a very strong personality like most in his family
and he fucking well got his way with Blair.

Try this:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/04/phone-call-bush-blair-failed-iraq

Nothing romantic there mate, nothing at all. Just one person
dominating the other.

### - romantic is only a way of looking at things, a bit like me calling
the election a slightly better episode of Dallas hah, a kind of historical >romanticism in my case, one wherein an england bent on empire one day
takes a backseat on the whole matter and ends up as the grand vizier
(usually an evil character in those stories heh) to the royal court of
bush, whispering advice in his ear about whose plotting against whom and
what he should maybe do about it, having some influence anyway upon the
royal decisions... not to much a poodle as a little pet lap-demon lol :)))

But it didn't happen that way at all. Blair was subservient to Bush
and many in your country still don't forgive him for being so weak and
for giving up his principles so easily. I don't think he has forgiven
himself for being so cowardly. His reputation has been trashed. And
then there was Cherie being scammed by Peter Foster, our worst
sociopathic scam artist ever. He scammed Samantha Fox (?) if I recall correctly as well.

and if biden's not exactly that, then is at least heading/leaning in >>>>> that
direction as they always do if not of the too far-left... (Corbyn here >>>>> was
farther-left, which is why even his own party disapproved of him, the >>>>> loons!)

America will never, ever vote a far left polly in. That would be
tantamount to giving up to the Russians. There is too much water
under the bridge for that to ever happen.

Whereas here in Australia we have had moderate socialism of the same
order as you in the UK - good socialised medicine, excellent welfare
and so on. I think we modeled our Medicare system after the UK's if
I'm not mistaken, and it works wonderfully well.

### - that's a good point, that there are 'certain' things about it
that's
obviously ok and even needed (they 'invented' the national health
service
here after the 2nd world war for example, which is obviously a good
thing!
even though they (the right) still bitch & moan about it costing them a
fortune and, more often than not, actively remove resources from it!

i mean yes it's costly! but is surely also a basic need like gas, water
and fucking electricity?? the wealthy still having bupa & private
insurance if they wanna have cherries on it; they can afford it!

Fully agree. Moderate socialism is a good thing, communism,
collectivism and bolshevism are VERY BAD things.

### - i like how you put it: "Moderate socialism" - iow: taking just the
best bits from it!

No, just toning it down a lot. Even though the Manifesto was written
in London, it was applied full blown in Russia and the good bits as
you say were overshadowed by the gulags, Lubianka, torture, Beria and
Stalin's terrible personality. Toning it down by the socialist labor
parties here and in the UK gave it a chance to work for the people in
the way it should work - pervasive, durable health care for all
regardless of income and social stratum, welfare to ensure that no one
starved to death if unemployed or unemployable, superannuation (I
don't know what it's called in the UK) to ensure moderately
comfortable retirement without draining the economy, pharmaceutical
benefits to reduce the cost of basic medicines for those who are
disadvantaged and so on.

that's acceptable! and is how we got a national health service in the
first place!

i.e., it's a bit like how churchill picked his war cabinet; in that he
didn't just pick people from his own party as one might assume, but chose >people from across all parties based entirely on being just the best man
for the job! earnest bevin (left-wing and the inventor of the NHS after
the war, when people were coming home missing arms & legs and shit) being
one of them!

But that's logical in a time of existential crisis. Hitler had a list
of those to be killed immediately when invaded and Churchill was at
the top - politics was secondary to mere survival. Any intelligent
politician in a time of such crisis would do the same.

I'm a little to the right of things, what's known as a libertarian.
Yet I like my dope and psychedelics and love colourful shirts and
reckless ways. Oh yeah, and I do have an unsettling love of $$$ :)

### - (slider & thang peering at each other across the fence...) i do >understand haha... conversely am a little to the left of things, what's
known as a hippy heh, love my dope and colourful shirts, and interested in >history & psychology and how this world ended up in such a goddamn mess
etc, thus a friend to the artists and deep thinkers because i value
them... you've got it relatively easy over there on the right but things
are not so easy on the left, it's a more exacting & difficult path ;)

I was carefree and hippy in my youth but life got in the way and now
bitter experience and there's simply no time to be naive about things.
I'm progressive in terms of science and technology and completely
libertarian in most ways - I do NOT believe that any human being has
the right to impede any other human being in their lifestyle choices,
only if other humans or animals or nature itself is going to be hurt
as a result of those choices. Then, it's generally ok to intervene or
impose one's will.

I love art but it's only a luxury of those who eat enough and are
sheltered and safe and healthy - due to science and technology. If
you have a heart attack then you know that science and technology will
more likely save your life - 100 years ago, that was not the case. As
I said above, I'm grateful to be alive in this day and age. For one
thing, life expectancy is far greater now than it ever has been and I
like living.

am still hoping he'll win it though, if only as a protest-vote from a >>>>> populace fed up by now with the rantings & ravings of a lunatic?
methinks
they might be just a bit jaded with all that by now, what with covid >>>>> on
top of all that too?

Oh there's not much wrong with Biden. He admitted to mistakes by him
and Obame in the last debate which was great - I always have a place
for anyone who can admit they were wrong (something I haven't seen you >>>> do mate, even when you have been wrong lol).

### - ahaha :)))

well i'll offer you then the same opportunity i gave jeremy to please
provide concrete examples that *isn't* just a difference of opinion at
the
time? (he came up with a list of about 7 such examples, all of which
could
be instantly refuted for one perfectly valid reason or another, and
where,
for example, i'd covered myself by admitting, at the time, that it was
only so in imho etc... that what he was actually angry about was the
fact
that i seemed to be getting things rather correct on a regular basis
'in-spite' of his opinions to the contrary? to the point he started this >>> thing whereby "i'm always right and will never admit when am wrong" even >>> though he couldn't provide even one single concrete example of such??

so please provide a 'concrete' example of where i actually got something >>> 'wrong' and i'll readily admit to it (i've never personally claimed to
be
infallible, that was just jeremy accusing me of never being wrong etc
etc)

Nope, not going there. I'm sorry (get it? an apology) for my comment.
Let's move on otherwise it will be a war of two and this group is
gonna really die.

### - good choice + i respect that too, am too enjoying things as they
are, it's nice to be nice :)

And fuck Jeremy/Dave. He has taken his scrawny head and fucked off to
places unknown and I don't miss him much. He was far too inflexible
and stuck in his silly ways, even though he vaunted himself as being
of high intellect. How on earth could any intelligent and well
balanced adult get entangled in a such obviously nonsensical fairytale
scam as the eponym of this group?

### - jeremy had come fresh from being with the scientologists, and >disappointed with them (and still looking for some kind of a tooth fairy
to believe in) he was seeking pastures new and found this guy castaneda; a >radically different idea (cosmology) altogether compared to just about >everything else on offer, a whole generation was talking about castaneda >after all, amongst various others... so i too had a good look at him
albeit not to the extent these dudes got into it by actually meeting with >castaneda and trying to absorb the teachings directly, even to being part
of some kind of exclusive inner, inner-circle of friends... that's it's >actually worth reading if you're into cosmologies, perforce to which
there's no end of cosmologies to examine, it's just that 'his' was rather >different... i would've liked to have met him for sure, and did in a
series of dreams only that's a different matter altogether heh ;)

I didn't know he was sucked in my so-called scientology (used to be
Dianetics when L Ron Hubbard invented the fucking thing on a dare by
another SF writer). How could he be sucked in by something so
patently false? And then to follow it by being sucked in by
Castaneda?

Did he also follow Lobsang Rampa (one of your people, if I recall
correctly, writing about his Tibetan travels from a flat in London or somewhere).

I know this guy here called Peter Foster, I might give him Dave's
email address. Peter has a really, really good investment idea...

I like Joe, I think he's ok if not a tad slow in memory - but what the >>>> fuck, I'm going to be late-60's soon and my memories are all still
intact as far as I know, but it's a shitload slower retrieving them :)

### - having been in politics for the last 47 years he's a genuine
statesman in every sense of the word, whereas trumpy's just some recent
'businessman' without even a clue about politics?? hence he's a great
dictator but a lousy statesman as we've seen from his rather callous
actions towards his own people in their time of need...

Entirely agree. He is safe hands personified and a lot of Yanks are
going to vote for him just for that reason. Trump is an actual
radical, a word you won't find is synonymous with revolutionary. He's
out there and in some ways that's good, a big shakeup every now and
then is good for our species. But his lack of empathy and respect for
the American people is staggering and probably some sort of
psychological defect - malignant narcissism more than likely.

### - so can you imagine the headlines the day after the election if he >loses?

YOU'RE FIRED!!!

ahahaha! :D :D :D

Problem is it will still be contested one month after Tuesday.

plus no doubt trumpy's gonna make some big-deal outta the postal votes >>>>> if
he loses heh (their biggest postal-vote in history!) the best that
could
happen being a total landslide to biden, sooo BIG the postal votes
wont
even matter... (a best case scenario heh)

I think Trump is fucked and when he loses, he will foment some sort of >>>> conflict perhaps even approaching a civil war. Let's wait and see,
it's all very imminent.

### - am actually surprised there hasn't already been something far more >>> drastic from him; some ultimate stunt he pulled to ensure a victory?
(even
thought he was maybe gonna do it with china over this virus shit and
start
some kinda more overt war with them, something that obviated the
election
altogether kinda thing? thank goodness, he didn't)

Nope that will come if and when he's roundly defeated. There are
plenty of libertarians and far right conservative folk out there with
GUNS.

### - he certainly primed it for something like that by casting aspersions
on the postal votes being bent, the biggest postal vote in their history
due to covid, what a coincidence! not to mention deliberately installing, >against tradition, a far-right judge (another religious nut) in the
supreme court only days before an election?? (very useful in order to push >through any right-wing applications at the highest level: democracy at
work lol)

All religious people are nuts. And Biden, if he wins, will pack the
court so that the conservative votes are watered down.

so yeah it should be good, and even very entertaining lol depending on >>>>> which way it all goes haha...

Yep, you got that right. I will be enjoying myself immensely.

### - lashings of colas and popcorns at the ready here boss! haha!
:)));)

this is gonna be a 'key' episode of Dallas the soap opera!

Lol. Might be more to that than you think, Dallas being in Texas and
all where Trump gets a huge hunk of his elecoral college votes.

Yep, most votes for the reds while California holds most votes for the
blues.

### - it's just very appropriate lol :)))

this world is just so fucked up though thang that trumpy could still >>>>> win
it, their electoral collage bs being a way to virtually guarantee a
fix
can always go in, whereas a one-man-one-vote system (i.e., what they

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### - i like how you put it: "Moderate socialism" - iow: taking just the
best bits from it!

that's acceptable! and is how we got a national health service in the
first place!

i.e., it's a bit like how churchill picked his war cabinet; in that he
didn't just pick people from his own party as one might assume, but chose people from across all parties based entirely on being just the best man
for the job! earnest bevin (left-wing and the inventor of the NHS after
the war, when people were coming home missing arms & legs and shit) being
one of them!

I'm a little to the right of things, what's known as a libertarian.
Yet I like my dope and psychedelics and love colourful shirts and
reckless ways. Oh yeah, and I do have an unsettling love of $$$ :)

### - (slider & thang peering at each other across the fence...) i do understand haha... conversely am a little to the left of things, what's
known as a hippy heh, love my dope and colourful shirts, and interested in history & psychology and how this world ended up in such a goddamn mess
etc, thus a friend to the artists and deep thinkers because i value
them... you've got it relatively easy over there on the right but things
are not so easy on the left, it's a more exacting & difficult path ;)

am still hoping he'll win it though, if only as a protest-vote from a
populace fed up by now with the rantings & ravings of a lunatic?
methinks
they might be just a bit jaded with all that by now, what with covid
on
top of all that too?

Oh there's not much wrong with Biden. He admitted to mistakes by him
and Obame in the last debate which was great - I always have a place
for anyone who can admit they were wrong (something I haven't seen you
do mate, even when you have been wrong lol).

### - ahaha :)))

well i'll offer you then the same opportunity i gave jeremy to please
provide concrete examples that *isn't* just a difference of opinion at
the
time? (he came up with a list of about 7 such examples, all of which
could
be instantly refuted for one perfectly valid reason or another, and
where,
for example, i'd covered myself by admitting, at the time, that it was
only so in imho etc... that what he was actually angry about was the
fact
that i seemed to be getting things rather correct on a regular basis
'in-spite' of his opinions to the contrary? to the point he started this
thing whereby "i'm always right and will never admit when am wrong" even
though he couldn't provide even one single concrete example of such??

so please provide a 'concrete' example of where i actually got something
'wrong' and i'll readily admit to it (i've never personally claimed to
be
infallible, that was just jeremy accusing me of never being wrong etc
etc)

Nope, not going there. I'm sorry (get it? an apology) for my comment.
Let's move on otherwise it will be a war of two and this group is
gonna really die.

### - good choice + i respect that too, am too enjoying things as they
are, it's nice to be nice :)

And fuck Jeremy/Dave. He has taken his scrawny head and fucked off to
places unknown and I don't miss him much. He was far too inflexible
and stuck in his silly ways, even though he vaunted himself as being
of high intellect. How on earth could any intelligent and well
balanced adult get entangled in a such obviously nonsensical fairytale
scam as the eponym of this group?

### - jeremy had come fresh from being with the scientologists, and disappointed with them (and still looking for some kind of a tooth fairy
to believe in) he was seeking pastures new and found this guy castaneda; a radically different idea (cosmology) altogether compared to just about everything else on offer, a whole generation was talking about castaneda
after all, amongst various others... so i too had a good look at him
albeit not to the extent these dudes got into it by actually meeting with castaneda and trying to absorb the teachings directly, even to being part
of some kind of exclusive inner, inner-circle of friends... that's it's actually worth reading if you're into cosmologies, perforce to which
there's no end of cosmologies to examine, it's just that 'his' was rather different... i would've liked to have met him for sure, and did in a
series of dreams only that's a different matter altogether heh ;)

I like Joe, I think he's ok if not a tad slow in memory - but what the
fuck, I'm going to be late-60's soon and my memories are all still
intact as far as I know, but it's a shitload slower retrieving them :)

### - having been in politics for the last 47 years he's a genuine
statesman in every sense of the word, whereas trumpy's just some recent
'businessman' without even a clue about politics?? hence he's a great
dictator but a lousy statesman as we've seen from his rather callous
actions towards his own people in their time of need...

Entirely agree. He is safe hands personified and a lot of Yanks are
going to vote for him just for that reason. Trump is an actual
radical, a word you won't find is synonymous with revolutionary. He's
out there and in some ways that's good, a big shakeup every now and
then is good for our species. But his lack of empathy and respect for
the American people is staggering and probably some sort of
psychological defect - malignant narcissism more than likely.

### - so can you imagine the headlines the day after the election if he
loses?

YOU'RE FIRED!!!

ahahaha! :D :D :D

plus no doubt trumpy's gonna make some big-deal outta the postal votes >>>> if
he loses heh (their biggest postal-vote in history!) the best that
could
happen being a total landslide to biden, sooo BIG the postal votes
wont
even matter... (a best case scenario heh)

I think Trump is fucked and when he loses, he will foment some sort of
conflict perhaps even approaching a civil war. Let's wait and see,
it's all very imminent.

### - am actually surprised there hasn't already been something far more
drastic from him; some ultimate stunt he pulled to ensure a victory?
(even
thought he was maybe gonna do it with china over this virus shit and
start
some kinda more overt war with them, something that obviated the
election
altogether kinda thing? thank goodness, he didn't)

Nope that will come if and when he's roundly defeated. There are
plenty of libertarians and far right conservative folk out there with
GUNS.

### - he certainly primed it for something like that by casting aspersions
on the postal votes being bent, the biggest postal vote in their history
due to covid, what a coincidence! not to mention deliberately installing, against tradition, a far-right judge (another religious nut) in the
supreme court only days before an election?? (very useful in order to push through any right-wing applications at the highest level: democracy at
work lol)

so yeah it should be good, and even very entertaining lol depending on >>>> which way it all goes haha...

Yep, you got that right. I will be enjoying myself immensely.

### - lashings of colas and popcorns at the ready here boss! haha!
:)));)

this is gonna be a 'key' episode of Dallas the soap opera!

Lol. Might be more to that than you think, Dallas being in Texas and
all where Trump gets a huge hunk of his elecoral college votes.

### - it's just very appropriate lol :)))

this world is just so fucked up though thang that trumpy could still
win
it, their electoral collage bs being a way to virtually guarantee a
fix
can always go in, whereas a one-man-one-vote system (i.e., what they
euphemistically call: the popular vote hah!) would always be more
representative...

It's not the world that's fucked up, it's human nature - we're peak
thinkers, predators and toolmakers, but we haven't shucked off our
primal baggage from our primordial beginnings. That will come - the
danger is we will wipe ourselves out before we can defeat our
instincts and evolutionary survival traits.

### - i indeed meant the human race only, there's being nada wrong
whatsoever with nature and the rest of the universe, which appears
perfect, it's just the human race that's all fucked up ;)

Nature is perfectly in balance all the way down and up, through
regions and levels we can't even guess at let alone peer at. Nature
is the true god infinite and eternal.

### - if you 'need' there to be a 'god' then yes, Nature fits the bill perfectly...

the whole thing is... 'alive' - and does actually respond to us if we can
be bothered to communicate with it (not in rational terms but in actual/practical terms...)

I'm always surprised that many people can't see this self-evident
fact. One needs a view of nature unburdened with sentimentality and
belief in tooth fairies and gods and all that junk - then reality
comes plainly into view.

### - that's totally correct imho... the human race is living in their
very own little bubble of self-constructed + invented reality which
they've superimposed upon the greater background reality that all the
rest
of nature is still in contact directly with... we're a maladjusted
species
heh ;)

Yes but we are a very, very young species. I collect trilobites -
they were around for 250 million years and went extinct (as all
species do, with the possible exception of man) in the Permian, so
long ago dinosaurs weren't even a figment of a dream of an
hallucination.

That was an old lineage when it went extinct, after quarter of a
billion years. We've been around for a quarter of one percent of that
time - we're pretty damn young and as for all young things, we have
the very best ahead of us.

But then again, I'm an incurable optimist.

### - in truth, there's only ever been the 'one' single species existing
here, the same single entity/life-form from which everything else has
evolved, ever more complex expressions of itself all the way up from
single cell to us - is pretty mind blowing really! - that we are all truly related on this planet from the bottom to the top! (genetically speaking
we're 98% chimpanzee for example, which sounds cool until you consider
that we're also 50% cabbage haha...)

the whole world is thus rigged to work & function in a very certain +
specific way that ultimately stinks to high heaven...

You mean "human world" - nature generated our species and when we are
extinct, whether it be in 50 years or 50,000,000 years, we won't be
missed by nature at all.

### - yes, the human world, the 'false' human world that flies in the
face
of nature as it really is and has always been... the human race not
giving
2-shits for how nature 'wants' to be, we've got our own ideas which,
coincidentally, results in us directly destroying nature! (i mean, what
more proof do we need that we need to change our ways??)

There's nothing false about anything. It is what it is, all the way.
Even lies are part of reality, the lie itself, not the subject matter
of the lie.

We're young species and like most young things, we're insanely
egocentric. Babies don't give a fuck about anyone or anything else
than themselves. We're a baby species. Give us time.

### - by false am referring to the 'humanly conceived' ideas of society
and civilisation; our own projected thoughts and ideas that we exclusively relate to 'more' than we relate to the underlying reality that all the
rest of nature still retains an awareness of and relates directly to...
there is a difference...

like children, yes, we live in our own little version of the world and
dumbly (i.e., unquestioningly) relate exclusively to it in exactly the
same way a child relates to santa clause and the tooth fairy: no less than
just adult versions thereof!

that that's the bit we haven't (as a species) quite grasped as yet, that
just because as adults we grew out of believing in santa, that didn't stop
us from still applying that very same formula/belief to everything else we
then do (iow: we didn't grow up at all lol, we merely exchanged santa and
the tooth fairy for something more adult to believe in instead hehe)

that IF there's a 'god' up there, he must be choking on the fumes of
it
all by now heh ;)

There's no "up" to start with. We're just a blip on the screen, an
outlier even in this pretty ordinary galaxy we're gravitationally
bound to. There definitely isn't a god in the way we imagine it to
be. Most people, deep deep down, know this.

### - was really only speaking rhetorically hehe, and just a little
humour
on my part with the emphasis on "IF" in capital letters hah, because
imho
we're totally alone with not even 'aliens' to help us hah! (fuckin'
aliens!? lol, riiiiight... and coz just look at the damnable state of us
and our world if *they've* been guiding us??? lol fuck off with their
aliens shit! - aliens?? riiiiight... ahaha... sorry folks but there
ain't
no stinkin' aliens! okaaaay? fuckin' aliens! gimmie a break!)

But you don't know if there are any aliens. No one does. That's an
opinion you're expressing not a fact. We don't have the facts.

### - am not saying/suggesting that life only exists here in the universe,
it would be ridiculous to think that, not to mention incredibly
egotistical as in when we used to believe the sun orbited the earth lol!
that if life exists 'here' then chances are it exists everywhere! but as
to 'aliens' furtively visiting us in their fuckin' flying saucers?? am
just not into all that haha (imho it's bs)

there IS however: Nature! which we're definitely a part of, and IS a
part
of us!

Everything is nature and nature is everything. To the bounds of the observable universe (several trillion galaxies in a volume around 90
billion light years in diameter) and the probable infinitude
thereafter. Our actions are nature because of this - there's no
"outside" nature. This place has been destroyed countless times over
- the Permian Extinction, the extinction of the dinosaurs, the very
very early extinctions and the biggest of all 2500 million years ago
when our atmosphere was changed by blue green algae from lovely safe non-oxidising methane and so on to fucking OXYGEN! Killed almost
entirely the life on terra, but paved the way for multicellular
organisms which paved the way for ....

US!

### - that's certainly one way of looking at it heh (the 'rationalised'
version i mean)

only, can 'life' (and all that entails/implies) really be rationalised in
such a manner without necessarily distorting the whole picture in the
process? any attempt to squeeze infinity into a box (no matter how big
that box) in order to examine it reducing it to something less than
infinity every time?

that doesn't stop us from trying though does it hah! and thus we've ended
up with one version after another of the damn tooth fairy!

that there's obviously more (a whole heap more!) to life, the universe & everything than reason alone can account for ;)

and we're in direct communication with it, only we don't really wanna
know
because it runs counter to all our own crappy ideas?

thus we feel, quite correctly, that something's missing from our lives,

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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[continued from previous message]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/04/phone-call-bush-blair-failed-iraq

Nothing romantic there mate, nothing at all. Just one person
dominating the other.

### - romantic is only a way of looking at things, a bit like me calling
the election a slightly better episode of Dallas hah, a kind of
historical
romanticism in my case, one wherein an england bent on empire one day
takes a backseat on the whole matter and ends up as the grand vizier
(usually an evil character in those stories heh) to the royal court of
bush, whispering advice in his ear about whose plotting against whom and
what he should maybe do about it, having some influence anyway upon the
royal decisions... not to much a poodle as a little pet lap-demon lol
:)))

But it didn't happen that way at all. Blair was subservient to Bush
and many in your country still don't forgive him for being so weak and
for giving up his principles so easily. I don't think he has forgiven himself for being so cowardly. His reputation has been trashed. And
then there was Cherie being scammed by Peter Foster, our worst
sociopathic scam artist ever. He scammed Samantha Fox (?) if I recall correctly as well.

### - some of it did happen though! blair advised bush not to go it alone
for instance? literally advised them to do it legally instead of acting unilaterally... that's what happened!

and if biden's not exactly that, then is at least heading/leaning in >>>>>> that
direction as they always do if not of the too far-left... (Corbyn
here
was
farther-left, which is why even his own party disapproved of him,
the
loons!)

America will never, ever vote a far left polly in. That would be
tantamount to giving up to the Russians. There is too much water
under the bridge for that to ever happen.

Whereas here in Australia we have had moderate socialism of the same >>>>> order as you in the UK - good socialised medicine, excellent welfare >>>>> and so on. I think we modeled our Medicare system after the UK's if >>>>> I'm not mistaken, and it works wonderfully well.

### - that's a good point, that there are 'certain' things about it
that's
obviously ok and even needed (they 'invented' the national health
service
here after the 2nd world war for example, which is obviously a good
thing!
even though they (the right) still bitch & moan about it costing them
a
fortune and, more often than not, actively remove resources from it!

i mean yes it's costly! but is surely also a basic need like gas,
water
and fucking electricity?? the wealthy still having bupa & private
insurance if they wanna have cherries on it; they can afford it!

Fully agree. Moderate socialism is a good thing, communism,
collectivism and bolshevism are VERY BAD things.

### - i like how you put it: "Moderate socialism" - iow: taking just the
best bits from it!

No, just toning it down a lot. Even though the Manifesto was written
in London, it was applied full blown in Russia and the good bits as
you say were overshadowed by the gulags, Lubianka, torture, Beria and Stalin's terrible personality. Toning it down by the socialist labor
parties here and in the UK gave it a chance to work for the people in
the way it should work - pervasive, durable health care for all
regardless of income and social stratum, welfare to ensure that no one starved to death if unemployed or unemployable, superannuation (I
don't know what it's called in the UK) to ensure moderately
comfortable retirement without draining the economy, pharmaceutical
benefits to reduce the cost of basic medicines for those who are disadvantaged and so on.

### - russian communism was a philosophical thing/movement, they seized on marx, then lenin, the revolution designed to remove power & property from
the ruling elite and give it back to the people, the french revolution
that preceded it being only very slightly different based on a slightly
earlier philosophy, one that evolved into the russian revolution
philosophy later with some modifications to it (you know: overthrow the
elite, power to the people etc etc, set up a new + more just state, only
it hardly ever works out that way does it hah! all the french ultimately
did was to get rid of their aristocracy, otherwise things are just about
the same there now lol, meet the new boss same as the old boss)

that's acceptable! and is how we got a national health service in the
first place!

i.e., it's a bit like how churchill picked his war cabinet; in that he
didn't just pick people from his own party as one might assume, but
chose
people from across all parties based entirely on being just the best man
for the job! earnest bevin (left-wing and the inventor of the NHS after
the war, when people were coming home missing arms & legs and shit)
being
one of them!

But that's logical in a time of existential crisis. Hitler had a list
of those to be killed immediately when invaded and Churchill was at
the top - politics was secondary to mere survival. Any intelligent politician in a time of such crisis would do the same.

### - maybe, but mostly they stick to their own members, picking someone
from the opposing camp etc, might have to always keep yer eye on 'em
kinda thing haha, but churchill certainly did that in a just the best man
for the
job scenario, something that raises him some in my view anyway...

I'm a little to the right of things, what's known as a libertarian.
Yet I like my dope and psychedelics and love colourful shirts and
reckless ways. Oh yeah, and I do have an unsettling love of $$$ :)

### - (slider & thang peering at each other across the fence...) i do
understand haha... conversely am a little to the left of things, what's
known as a hippy heh, love my dope and colourful shirts, and interested
in
history & psychology and how this world ended up in such a goddamn mess
etc, thus a friend to the artists and deep thinkers because i value
them... you've got it relatively easy over there on the right but things
are not so easy on the left, it's a more exacting & difficult path ;)

I was carefree and hippy in my youth but life got in the way and now
bitter experience and there's simply no time to be naive about things.
I'm progressive in terms of science and technology and completely
libertarian in most ways - I do NOT believe that any human being has
the right to impede any other human being in their lifestyle choices,
only if other humans or animals or nature itself is going to be hurt
as a result of those choices. Then, it's generally ok to intervene or
impose one's will.

### - i think i would've got-on with you fairly well in your crazy youth
stage hehe, more so perhaps than your businessman mode anyway? (am not
trying to be offensive here, but people who think & talk about money all
the time i find rather boring/banal sometimes? a bit like trumpy going-on
about his BIG numbers, beautiful numbers etc etc, putting numbers on everything?? i don't see/experience life quite in those terms? and as a
wild youth you were probably actually more like me haha, wink-wink)

I love art but it's only a luxury of those who eat enough and are
sheltered and safe and healthy - due to science and technology. If
you have a heart attack then you know that science and technology will
more likely save your life - 100 years ago, that was not the case. As
I said above, I'm grateful to be alive in this day and age. For one
thing, life expectancy is far greater now than it ever has been and I
like living.

### - i can understand all that, totally! makes perfect sense! but only if
you look at the world in a very certain way? there might be other ways i
mean, maybe even better ways, more 'human' ways that are 'alive' rather
than being robotic?

am still hoping he'll win it though, if only as a protest-vote from >>>>>> a
populace fed up by now with the rantings & ravings of a lunatic?
methinks
they might be just a bit jaded with all that by now, what with covid >>>>>> on
top of all that too?

Oh there's not much wrong with Biden. He admitted to mistakes by him >>>>> and Obame in the last debate which was great - I always have a place >>>>> for anyone who can admit they were wrong (something I haven't seen
you
do mate, even when you have been wrong lol).

### - ahaha :)))

well i'll offer you then the same opportunity i gave jeremy to please
provide concrete examples that *isn't* just a difference of opinion at >>>> the
time? (he came up with a list of about 7 such examples, all of which
could
be instantly refuted for one perfectly valid reason or another, and
where,
for example, i'd covered myself by admitting, at the time, that it was >>>> only so in imho etc... that what he was actually angry about was the
fact
that i seemed to be getting things rather correct on a regular basis
'in-spite' of his opinions to the contrary? to the point he started
this
thing whereby "i'm always right and will never admit when am wrong"
even
though he couldn't provide even one single concrete example of such??

so please provide a 'concrete' example of where i actually got
something
'wrong' and i'll readily admit to it (i've never personally claimed to >>>> be
infallible, that was just jeremy accusing me of never being wrong etc
etc)

Nope, not going there. I'm sorry (get it? an apology) for my comment.
Let's move on otherwise it will be a war of two and this group is
gonna really die.

### - good choice + i respect that too, am too enjoying things as they
are, it's nice to be nice :)

And fuck Jeremy/Dave. He has taken his scrawny head and fucked off to
places unknown and I don't miss him much. He was far too inflexible
and stuck in his silly ways, even though he vaunted himself as being
of high intellect. How on earth could any intelligent and well
balanced adult get entangled in a such obviously nonsensical fairytale
scam as the eponym of this group?

### - jeremy had come fresh from being with the scientologists, and
disappointed with them (and still looking for some kind of a tooth fairy
to believe in) he was seeking pastures new and found this guy
castaneda; a
radically different idea (cosmology) altogether compared to just about
everything else on offer, a whole generation was talking about castaneda
after all, amongst various others... so i too had a good look at him
albeit not to the extent these dudes got into it by actually meeting
with
castaneda and trying to absorb the teachings directly, even to being
part
of some kind of exclusive inner, inner-circle of friends... that's it's
actually worth reading if you're into cosmologies, perforce to which
there's no end of cosmologies to examine, it's just that 'his' was
rather
different... i would've liked to have met him for sure, and did in a
series of dreams only that's a different matter altogether heh ;)

I didn't know he was sucked in my so-called scientology (used to be
Dianetics when L Ron Hubbard invented the fucking thing on a dare by
another SF writer). How could he be sucked in by something so
patently false? And then to follow it by being sucked in by
Castaneda?

Did he also follow Lobsang Rampa (one of your people, if I recall
correctly, writing about his Tibetan travels from a flat in London or somewhere).

### - if you're 'looking' for some kinda tooth fairy to believe in, then scientology is really no worse than any other false religion hehehe :)))

that's how they get suckered-in i mean: they're looking for something to 'believe' in! they 'assume' there's something there! so then it's just a
matter of what! (laughing coz it's true!)

dave did the rounds! tried a few different ones! if that didn't do it he
moved on to the next! and the next and even the next lol (true!) all the
while never even considering that maybe they're ALL just a crock??

i mean, this is what happens to people raised in a religious setting no?
they implicitly believe in god, then maybe just in the spirit, then in
fuckin' aliens lol, it doesn't really matter 'what' they believe in just
as long as they believe in... something?

this is why i always say i don't 'believe' in anything, period!

and also too why i find myself walking around in a world conceived & made entirely by staunch believers in some one kinda crap or another, their
whole 'world' is comprised thus! in this world it's 'beliefs' all the way
down! ;)

I know this guy here called Peter Foster, I might give him Dave's
email address. Peter has a really, really good investment idea...

### - jeremy knows it's all a crock by now heh (no one could be so
thoroughly disappointed as many times as he was and not have learned
something about it by now?)

but i bet he still believes in money though! hah! :)))

I like Joe, I think he's ok if not a tad slow in memory - but what
the
fuck, I'm going to be late-60's soon and my memories are all still
intact as far as I know, but it's a shitload slower retrieving them
:)

### - having been in politics for the last 47 years he's a genuine
statesman in every sense of the word, whereas trumpy's just some
recent
'businessman' without even a clue about politics?? hence he's a great
dictator but a lousy statesman as we've seen from his rather callous
actions towards his own people in their time of need...

Entirely agree. He is safe hands personified and a lot of Yanks are
going to vote for him just for that reason. Trump is an actual
radical, a word you won't find is synonymous with revolutionary. He's
out there and in some ways that's good, a big shakeup every now and
then is good for our species. But his lack of empathy and respect for
the American people is staggering and probably some sort of
psychological defect - malignant narcissism more than likely.

### - so can you imagine the headlines the day after the election if he
loses?

YOU'RE FIRED!!!

ahahaha! :D :D :D

Problem is it will still be contested one month after Tuesday.

### - i know... but is still fun to think about that haha...

his face when he reads that lol: YOU'RE FIRED!!! (slap!)

'could' still even happen hehe, am watching it live lol just in case ;)

and, at 10am the next morning: well what a pile of shit LOL !

fucker got up there and declared a 'win' before they've even finished counting??

and wants to have the remaining postal votes disallowed haha :)))

fuck me! JR is pulling out all his strings tonite boy! lol...

democracy?? forget it haha, the 'manipulation' of democracy more like!

plus it's always the right-wing that pull all these corrupt stunts isn't
it?

so why is that do you think, it's like a tradition with them or something
;)

plus no doubt trumpy's gonna make some big-deal outta the postal
votes
if
he loses heh (their biggest postal-vote in history!) the best that >>>>>> could

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